Leafy Podcast Episodes

Leafy Podcast focuses on business engagement as we interview industry leaders and leave our audience with valuable take-away content on protecting, growing and managing their wealth.

Episode 92

Female Announcer 0:00

Welcome to the leafy podcast, helping real estate investors and entrepreneurs grow. Say hello to your hosts, Jennifer Gilgoric and Brian price founders of Leafy Legal Services,teaching you how to protect your assets for your business and manage your wealth. Let's start the show.

Tammy Geerling 0:18

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Leafy Show. Thank you so much for being with us today. I'm Tammy, the podcast manager. And on the line we have our awesome hosts both Brian Price and Jennifer Gilgoric from Leafy Legal Services. Brian is the CEO of that service and Jennifer is the COO. They have another awesome guests for us today. So let me pass it on to them so that they can get the show started for us. Hey, Jennifer, hey, Brian. How are you guys doing?

Brain Price 0:44

Good, good.

Jennifer Gilgroic 0:45

Great. Great. I'm very excited to be here today. So today's guest has a really awesome backstory. And so his life has been this incredible journey. His parents were Vietnamese immigrants to Canada and then through his life. He as he went, he got a paper route. So he's always been an entrepreneur. So even as young, he had a job, he was an entrepreneur, he went on a paper route. Then he ended up doing finance classes there at the university in London on it, Ontario. So that's still Canada. Then he ends up going to England. Then he comes back to Canada gets involved with yellow pages and red pages, actually, which was a startup that was going to compete and they were going to do an actual written, they're going to print out website addresses, just like you had for the phone book. So yeah, this was back in the day. So it's like so cool. And then he managed to move that forward and move that forward. And now he's an SEO expert. So I want us to give a huge round of applause and welcome John Vuong to our show. And he's with local SEO H O Seo search.ca. So welcome, John. I just love your story.

John Vuong 1:57

Thanks a lot, Jennifer. Yeah, that was a great Intro. Yeah, it's been a journey for sure. And I'm excited to share some insights along the way.

Unknown Speaker 2:07

Yeah. So how did you kind of get through this? You know, going through these different avenues? How did you finally settle on SEO? And and once you walk us through us and I like to hear more about these red pages, I think that's pretty interesting.

John Vuong 2:21

Yeah, definitely. So seven years ago, I started this agency, local SEO search. I had no clue about anything technical. So I'm not an SEO background expert by any means. I started my career actually in sales in advertising sales. And I studied business finance, so it was kind of different. But in order for me to get a real job, that was my first job, and I stuck with it, and over the course of many years, I refined my art of sales and marketing. And I got to really understand what my strengths are what I enjoy doing, and Yellow Pages where I was there for five years. The relationships is what really connected me with local business owners, and really wanting to help them grow and stand out because they were genuinely interested in the community, right, like real people supporting real community leaders, right, like computer people. But even before that read pages, so that was my first job actually, outside of university. It was the, it was a great concept. It was competing with the yellow pages. First directory ever going to every single business home office tower, but printed every website, so it was competing with Google, but Google wasn't like taking off at that time yet. Right? So it was called read to and it also came out with a directory read Toronto, but it didn't last it didn't survive. It was a great concept. So I sold a bunch of it because I was a true believer in it. But it just didn't. survive.

Jennifer Gilgroic 4:01

I think it's an absolute scream that you are in finance and that you went into finances school, but you end up in sales and you're like a total sales he kind of, hey, let's talk because usually finance people are like, hey, let's not talk so I can like do this right here with these numbers that I love. And you're like completely opposite of that. So I always love it when the journey switches in in changes, and and that relationships are so important. And it is weird when we look back that there was a day before Google, you know that you had these books and everything like that. I have a house that's over 100 years old, and my son we we were we it still has stuff in it from the the lady who had owned it her entire life. She was like literally in her 90s when I bought that. I think it's always been like their house, you know? And we found the old rotary phones. And I was like, show me how you would make a call. You know when we found them and he was like, I had no idea Like whatsoever, and then he was like, so you had to do that for every single number. And I was like, yeah. And if you got the wrong number, you have to start all over again. He was like, wow, this is fascinating, fascinating to him. So it was really cool. So tell me a little bit about how you went from the Yellow Pages. You're doing all this relationship, marketing and relationship sales, because people you know, the biggest part, if you're in advertising sales is not just to sell one ad, you want the people to constantly, you know, be re re upping their subscriptions. And that's part of your compensation, with many advertising sales. It's why some advertising sales reps make really good money. They're good at keeping their people, you know, they're always checking in with them, you know, so tell us a little bit how you went from that in and where you're at now.

John Vuong 5:50

Yeah, so at Yellow Pages, so I was there for five years and relationship sales was more of a I don't know Like, I was genuine, I was really like just authentic raw. So I always had a story. And where I was just letting people in on like my journey, right? Like, what I grew up doing, how I discovered like traveling like I love. I had a exchange experience, like going to school in London, England for a year. And I was amazing. For me that really opened up a lot of opportunity for me to see what's bigger and greater than just my local community of working in a small suburb of Toronto, right? That's where I grew up. So for me, it was more about like, just connecting with people and letting them in. And yes, I was able to not just renew people, but upsell, and then of course, it was all about listening to them asking the right questions and finding out what their true needs and desires were right because ultimately, a lot of people were frustrated. They were getting spending more money than ever but not getting the same sort of return. They used to get 10 1520 years ago. And when I hear that all the time, I'm like, so what is going on? Where are people shopping? How are they pivoting? Like, what is the user behavior, right? And as you know, the internet started to take off, Google started becoming more present. Email started to be the main mode of communication, no longer fax machines, no longer telephones, text messaging, like all these new innovative stuff that you hear today, like social media and content, video content, audio, all that is all new within the last 10 years, right. But before that, it was still traditional media, which was newspapers, flyers, magazines, trade shows, billboards, Radio Television, right. But today, it's now podcast, YouTube videos. There's Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, you name it, right? Like there's so many other new initiatives. that technology has allowed users to change their behavior. Being controlling in a different platform in different way, at their convenience, right? So it's just different. But there's still a lot of people consuming information. And you have to understand the users behavior to then gravitate on what is important for business owners. And that's where I shifted, because a lot of people were just frustrated spending so much money and didn't see a good return.

Jennifer Gilgroic 8:24

It's very frustrating because it's changed so quickly, you know, it was like 100 years ago, it was still well, we have this directory and local and you go to this guy, and he puts up a little sign, you know, and that's how it was for like, ever. And when I say forever generations, yes, just in our lifetime. It's been you know, going from paper to then television and now you have radio now you have internet now the internet's completely changed and you have this is like weariness to have to as soon as like every other year, there is some new hotness and what Did you know six months ago isn't the same? And I think that there's a lot of business owners, but also people who are frustrated, where do I go to get really what I need? And and oh, now I've got to learn a new app. It's just crazy. So it's amazing that you're on the on the edge of that. How do you not get tech weary? I mean, there's a lot that's in your head. Do you just dump it out as you are constantly knowing new stuff?

John Vuong 9:28

Yeah, so I specialized now just on SEO because it's already fairly complex. Digital advertising comprises of email, social content creation in various forms. And then understanding like, what these different apps and software and technology can actually do for a business, right like to either scale and understand the process and efficiencies of it. So you have to really just focus on what you do best. And I continue doing that which is building relationships, meaningful ones with business owners that are I'm trying to help them grow and build a digital presence, right. And what we do is focus just on SEO, because I feel it being very similar to what Yellow Pages provided, which is the organic, natural listings on Google where the businesses are not pushing stuff at you, right? That's advertising, you know, trying to disrupt that user behavior to get someone to either click or call you at that given moment with a creative ad, right. But when you're appearing organically or naturally, someone else is seeking you out. So you're pulling people when and during control. And that's what Yellow Pages provide. So that was more directive advertising versus Creative Advertising. And that's why I feel SEO is still the dominant player for that same sort of medium that people used to spend a lot of money and yellow pages with.

Unknown Speaker 10:53

Yeah, that's an interesting way of putting it because yeah, I mean, it is it is kind of like the new Yellow Pages is but You have to kind of put yourself out there and find different ways of attracting people. It's not like in one, one book. So how are you helping people to get in front of more people to get to those those folks that are that are searching for you.

John Vuong 11:15

So understanding how Google works is very important. And I feel people overcomplicate things. I always tell people like run a really good business. What I mean by that is, take care of your customers, listen to them, provide an amazing product or service. Understand that value prop what unique selling proposition you're offering, like, understand foundationally what makes a really good business because over the course of many years, I've worked with thousands of business owners that operated for generations without technology. So imagine how did they survive? they relied on referrals and word of mouth, right and minimal advertising on maybe yellow pages or print media or flyers. Whatever may be right, so right, how did they survive? And what has dif different right? Like, the challenges? There's a lot going on today technology has advanced so quickly in the last five or 10 years that people are bombarded with this new app, this new software, this new social media feed, and they're looking for quick solutions, fast ways to expedite to make that hundred thousand dollars in a week because they saw an ad there, right? And they forget that well, maybe one in a million person actually receive that benefit. Everyone else is gonna lose a lot of money and get stressed and frustrated. So why not you do what everyone else used to do, which is grind it out, understand how to run a business and focus on the foundations right? So that's what I always boil things down to like SEO can really help advance a business Once they already know how to take care of the customer, and run a good business, but we cannot help someone that doesn't even know how to run a business because their reputations on the line, there's a lot of other foundational things that are missing.

Jennifer Gilgroic 13:13

Yeah, well, that's kind of what we do we do the foundational things on the back end structure so that they don't take themselves before they even get started, because everybody wants to sales come in. But there's a lot of other things you have to put in place in order for that to happen. So I get that. And I'm gonna ask you a question. You know, you were all heavy Google, Google Google. But right now, you know, like, as the time we're taping this, Google and Facebook and Amazon are all in this, like, antitrust. People are willing to break them up. I mean, you know, Google is the Yellow Pages, but it is the everything. It's like the new source. It's like the thing. So do you. Do you think now like, Are you already building your plan for what if they break it up? Like what if they actually split up Google and now People have other products that they can do, you know, there's brave, there's DuckDuckGo there's all these other search engines, you know, Yahoo used to be the search engine. But But now I think Yahoo doesn't that piggyback off of Google Now. They're all like together. But do you have a plan? Like how do you think it's gonna go now that there is so much heat on these these mega monopolies? Which, you know, in my opinion, they all need to be broken up. But you know, I'm, that's just my opinion. But yeah.

John Vuong 14:33

So, like every generation, always look at where people the users are going to gravitate towards. So understanding what what channel or what purpose Facebook has, right, like, Who do they target and what's the sole purpose when you go to Facebook? What's the sole person is when you go to LinkedIn or Twitter, right understanding that mode of communication and that platform and medium of choice. So think about zoom and Eventbrite and all those online platforms where you can now do presentations since the pandemic, it's really been elevated, where people are now spending more time in front of a computer pitching and doing a lot more conferences that way. So it's just understanding what's going on, right in terms of the users. And if Google is still and yes, Google's always pivoting, they're trying to find ways to monetize. They're trying to own the real estate, trying to alleviate and not get business owners who are ranking users to click on their website, they will either click on Google's properties right around the SERPs, because that's your prime real estate. They make money through ads, right and retargeted ads, I get it. So you have to understand the whole purpose of the medium. And then how do you capitalize on what's available? Right, right. And I still feel SEO is very powerful, because you can control and position yourself and optimize as that local player. On the map below, right? Because that's still free at this time, but you also have to be weary of what's going on. Right? Because same with Facebook. You know, before, once upon a time a couple years ago, you could organically get position, right? But today, every two times every time you scroll down, there's an ad that appears, right? There's always pushing stuff at you. And it's more like, you're bombarded with stuff that you don't really want to, you know, be there for right like, yeah, so you have to understand the channel and the different media's out there and understand what's going on within and I still feel Google is great, like duck, duck go. It's not like in terms of use.

Jennifer Gilgroic 16:45

Yeah, I mean.

John Vuong 16:45


Jennifer Gilgroic 16:46

Put that on every single phone. You see, when you have an agreement that every single phone that comes out, it has to have your voice.

Brain Price 16:54

if you own the operating system.

Jennifer Gilgroic 16:57

Now it's like you can't infer some people. They do all their work. I mean, I know people who literally work off their phones now, you know, the phones are more expensive in some cases than computers, which is nuts. Right? But you do everything you're doing your banking your you have your password keepers, you've got all your things on your phone. And so, yeah, I mean, it's crazy to have it so embedded like Facebook, I mean, there's entire things you cannot do unless you have a Facebook account where you can log in, that are totally unrelated to Facebook. Right? So it's just interesting because there's so much interconnectivity, it can be confusing for people. Yeah, very much so to compete, you know, but that's good. I really love the fact that you still believe in your in this every single day that you can still use it for local people, because that means that local businesses still have a chance to get the people around them for free. And they have ways that they can utilize this technology. So that actually warms my Heart, a whole bunch for that.

John Vuong 18:03

Understanding the space, right? Like it's always evolving, but looking for opportunities to capitalize because people get frustrated, spending too much money not getting good returns. So I want to help the little guys.

Unknown Speaker 18:15

Yeah. So are there certain things that you always do know? You know, I know things change for hours, there's kind of some basis that you actually do and maybe some of the new stuff that you're looking into as well.

John Vuong 18:26

Yeah. So for us, we always look at foundational stuff like understand your client, creating a content journey mapping, and really positioning yourself as the expert, right. So understanding who your ideal persona client is, and writing every piece of content, your website piece is directly driven to those type of people, right, from everything you produce. From video, podcasts, audio, you know, images or written depending on where they're at in terms of the journey, create that content piece for them, and then making sure that You're up to date in terms of like, what's going on what the users want, like they want fast, secure, easy to use navigation. Like, all these things are now behavior. If you don't have it, someone else is gonna, you're probably losing out right on an alternative because they're bouncing off your page to someone else. Right? So just staying current and what's going on, right? Because technology's moving so fast. And as much as you want to stay on top of it. It's kind of scary too, because there's so much going on, right? Like AI. What's going on there? Like they know too much about you already. Right? Is that

Jennifer Gilgroic 19:40

right? Yes. I'm like terrified like I can have a conversation with a friend of mine. And then immediately I'll go on, you know, to look at something and ads for that pickup. And I'm like, How did my phone know I was, you know, talking to somebody you know that. Maybe it's time to get hair extensions. My entire timeline is nothing but a hair extension company. Whatever but yeah, yeah, it's weird man. I don't like it. I'm like stay in as much as I say that. I still have an Alexa. So if I

Brain Price 20:12

Don't say it.

Jennifer Gilgroic 20:16

Oh, yeah, people used to be what was that joke? They used to say, you know, don't say that over the telephone because you never know if the CIA is listening, and then it says 2020 CIA, how do I bake a pie? Like that coming back to? That's cool. Well, so Okay, so what else can you tell people? Right now if they have their own, like website and stuff like that? Is there anything anyone can do besides writing things in the in the tone of the voice for your target client? Like taking it down from I just want to tell everybody in the whole wide world to really knowing who your ideal client is, it's very important. Is there anything else that you can give us on on top of that?

John Vuong 20:58

Yeah, so I focused On a lot of service based small, medium sized business owners, like the local dentist or plumber or lawyer or whatnot, Google My Business is a great opportunity. If you haven't verified it, optimize it, make sure you're in the right category, put in all the services that you offer, update it once a week, get good reviews onto the Google My Business Page, because people are checking you out before they call you. And they know so much before they even reach out to you. That's scary, right? They know, they checked out you on LinkedIn, they check out your reviews, case studies, Chapter all your blogs to see if you're credible, right. So as much as you want to put out information, make sure it's consistent along the lines, don't, you know, say one thing and do something else the other channel right? So it's more important than ever to make sure all your assets and all the properties that you own online is consistent has the same tone of voice and has the same good, you know? Good feel authentic feel rawness, right, because end of the day people are gonna check you all. And if

Jennifer Gilgroic 22:11

I actually have a really good local thing, so I had a marketing company and I used to help people do this and there was an assisted living facility here in our town, and they did not go out and grab what you say their their property. So when he says that if for anyone who doesn't know what that means, it means like, go to your Yelp and claim your business claim your business on Google, there's actually a little thing when you you put it up, is this your business? You want to claim it because somebody else can claim it. So they had a Facebook page that actually wasn't theirs. It was a it was a well meaning former staff, and so nothing had been updated on it. And there were some like comments that weren't that great, but their Google business showed had a set of pictures, the first pictures that came up That had someone had made a cut is disgusting, but they had messed their bed. That's all I'm gonna say that it was very graphic. And that is the picture that came up for now this is one of the cleanest, nicest facilities. And that picture wasn't even of their facility. Because the flooring was they didn't have that flooring anywhere in any of their rooms. But that was the picture that pulled up. And it was actually a process to pull that listing away, and a verification from the person who had claimed it, who was a competitor of a very small unit to do it. So people wouldn't go to this very large one. I mean, they had hundreds of rooms, a skilled nursing or whatever. And they're like, how can businesses just dropped and we're not getting calls. We're not getting this? Well, as soon as I help them clean that up a little bit just because I knew enough to do that. I'm not an expert like john, who could have probably really maximized that all of a sudden, the phones started ringing. They started getting more residents again, because that false information wasn't out there. So you do want to do that not just for SEO, but also to protect the name and good reputation of your business. So add that to that. Yeah. So I didn't mean to hijack you there. I just had an actual thing I knew about what you were saying worked. Well, we've been talking to john Vong. Am I saying that correctly? I should, yes. Okay. Great. And he's with local SEO search.ca because he's Canadian. Right. So local SEO search.ca. And we're getting to almost getting close to the end. So Brain, did you have any? Some questions? Still? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 24:46

Well, I think that I noticed on your site, you have a free site audit. So why don't you tell us about how what that includes and how people can get and you know, get theirs, their site audited and how you can help?

John Vuong 24:58

Yeah, so what we've been trying to do is give and help as many small medium sized businesses as possible. So usually with that someone inputs her website, usually it's a real business that's been in business for a while that is frustrated and need some more of a digital presence, right? Because we need to benchmark you, we need to figure out how we can help. And so we we kind of do a console, a phone conversation first, to see where you're at what you've done, and kind of analyze how we can help. Right? Yeah, because not only do we bring an SEO background and console, we actually go in a little bit deeper because of our business experience. Myself, yes, I have 10 plus years in sales and marketing working with thousands of businesses, but my VP of sales have worked with over you know, a couple thousand clients as well, but he was at Yellow Pages for 35 years. So his experience his insights in how to run a good Business is invaluable for a lot of business owners that are just starting, right. So we try to just help as much as possible. And that's what differentiates us from a lot of other competitors.

Brain Price 26:11


Jennifer Gilgroic 26:12

Yeah, experience like that is really invaluable, especially when they've you've guys have seen it all. And really the best advertising is a good business. You know, you do what you say you're going to do, and you make people happy. And they tell their friends and I know there's the old adage, well, if they're unhappy, they'll tell everybody if they're happy, they're not gonna say word, but that's just being bitter. That's actually not true. People do talk about good experiences, and they do recommend, and even on Facebook, you have local here in Galveston, we have this Galveston is called Galveston gossip or something like that. There's like 60,000 people on it, and people gossip and they talk and they take pictures of things. And they even give shout outs but they also ask questions. Hey, guys, who do you know who can fix this? Or Who's your landscaper? My guys, not doing it anymore. I see that a lot. And people refer to that all the time. And that's just my little town. So you know, there's there's just running a good business and being good people will talk, they will talk and send you stuff. It's which is this.

John Vuong 27:15

These are great forums and groups because once you are known and reputable, it's all about like cultivating more opportunity, right? So just do good end of the day, eventually things will come to you and be honest about it. Right? Like don't don't try to you know, do a fast one on people right? Or, you know me like they're so

Jennifer Gilgroic 27:38

Basic but yeah. You're right. Don't pull a fast one on me but there's so much click and bead and there's so many people on social just trying to make it or hustle or whatever it is. Yeah, but are they real business owners like really? If you look at any athlete, pro athlete or any successful singer, they don't tell you what they've been doing for the last 20 years. yours. You see them at the pinnacle. So it's the same bit entrepreneurship like, no one sees me doing what I did for the last 20 years. They only see me at now. Right? But how many years of you know the grit and wrongness of hustling and door knocking cold calling and all those other things? sleepless nights and not paying for food? Like all these things, no one sees that, right?

Brain Price 28:26

Yeah, absolutely.

Jennifer Gilgroic 28:29

Okay, so, as Connect, I'm going to set one more question before Tammy has to take us away but as Canadian who had to live in England, I want you to tell me what English food does there any English food that you particularly liked? Because, you know, back in the day, England was not known for its food. So I'm curious as what a Vietnamese Canadian living in England like for his food. I know that's off topic, but I just have to ask you.

John Vuong 28:55

Know, I still love the chips there, which is fine. Yeah, but they were really greasy. They were like dripped in, you know, after you go to the local pub and uh huh. No, no. I mean, it was great. But because I was drunk, maybe but

Jennifer Gilgroic 29:14

Man, you can't you can't beat it. Well, that's awesome. Well guys we've been talking to john von john is with local SEO search.ca. If you're a small or medium sized business owner and you're just racking your head, trying to figure out how to cut through the noise and increase your exposure, but you know, in the way that you need to get in more clients that you can take great care of, then go and see him at local SEO search.ca. And Tammy is going to give you more information about us. Thank you so much, John, for being on the show. It was just great Convo.

Brain Price 29:48

Thanks. I appreciate it

John Vuong 29:49

Thanks a lot Brian and Jennifer. Thank you.

Tammy Geerling 29:51

Yeah, thank you, John. And thank you, Brian and Jennifer for hosting today. And we will have all of John's links in our show notes. And you can find us at leafy legal we are across all social media platforms and also podcast platforms. So thank you again so much for listening today. Hope you have a wonderful day and we will see you next time. Bye.

Male Announcer 30:22

Attention real estate investors and entrepreneurs. Did you know that real estate investors are a primary target for lawsuits according to the National Survey of the court data 25% of Americans risk being sued in their lifetime. However, if you are a real estate investor, you have a 95% chance of being sued in the next 20 years. Leafy Legal Services helps you protect your assets and strategically grow your business and wealth LiFi legal services our experts at the series LLC and Delaware statutory trust to have the newest and most ideal legal structures for real estate investors leaving legal services at the most personalized and affordable solutions for setting up LLCs property owners are always at risk when it comes to their assets. anonymity is so important. If you own just a rental house and you own your home, you have to protect yourself and your properties from any potential legal issues. Leafy Legal Services have the right solutions to make sure you are happy and feel secure or they offer cost effective documentation that suits their client's needs for a free consultation and ebook visit levy legal services.com They are waiting to hear from you Leafy Legal Services.com.

Female Announcer 31:35

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